Stuart Knight  0:00  
And I'm talking now today to people, to get them realizing that human connection is not when you share thoughts, but rather when you share feelings, whatever it may be when we're sharing feelings with another person. Now, instead of having that mind to mind connection, we're having a heart to heart connection. And that heart to heart connection is really what true human connection is and it's what we did for millions of years, up until the most recent, I guess, decades in humanity.

Jeff Ma  0:34  
Hello and welcome to love as a business strategy, a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business, but we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from, and we believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. I'm your host, Jeff MA and as always, I'm here to have conversations and hear stories from real people about real business, about real life. And my guest today is Stuart Knight and Stuart is a globally recognized expert in high level communication, having written, produced and starred in shows seen by over a million people, he consults with some of the world's largest companies, helping them achieve new levels of success, often featured on TV and radio for his insights. Stewart also shares his expertise through a popular blog, a hit podcast and weekly videos that reach 1000s of viewers. As a critically acclaimed author of two books, he challenges conventional thinking and inspires a revolution in how people approach ideas, and so I'm happy to have him here to share some of those ideas and thoughts. Welcome to the show, Stuart, how you doing?

Stuart Knight  1:39  
Thank you for having me, Jeff. I don't know if you get this a lot, but as I was listening to you, introduce me just there as a straight man, I think you might have the sexiest voice in the world. It's like, I don't know if this is a straight man comment you get or a compliment often, but you've got like, that smooth, very, very white, very white voice. So yeah, I just feel that much more special about being on your show.

Jeff Ma  2:03  
Well, we're starting off on a great foot here. I mean, if that's not love, I don't know what is. It's the wrong kind of love, man. Thank you so much. And no, no one's ever said that before, but I'm now going to clip that and save it. I'm gonna keep my pocket with me for as long as I can. Thank you. We've already so we're done. That's all we have for today. Yeah, great. So much. Stuart, finally, I, you know,

Stuart Knight  2:26  
it was the one thing I wanted to make sure I got in there today. So we did it

Jeff Ma  2:32  
well, jumping into the topic. But before we do actually, Stuart, I have a question, what is your what is your passion? Besides my voice, what is your passion? And how did you find it?

Stuart Knight  2:49  
You know my passion, uh, hit me in the face very hard when I was probably 1920, years old, when I gave my very first, I guess you would call it motivational speech in university, and I was just dabbling at this idea. I thought, wouldn't it be cool to go out there and in an entertaining way, share ideas that make people want to change their lives in a positive way, based on all the stuff that I've read, what if I could convert it into some really cool presentation? And then finally, someone said, yes, we'll let you do it. And I did it, and I had this young woman come up to me in the parking lot after and really open up and tell me about how much she had been struggling and how listening to my talk that day had given her a completely different perspective on her life. And it was through tears, quite frankly, and I in that moment thought, Oh no, like, I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, because I now know I cannot turn back. This will be my life. And it was, you know, once you get that drug of making people feel good and making a difference in the lives of other people, no matter what it may be like, whether it's as a parent, whether it's as a boss or whether it's as a friend, it is just so intoxicating, and so I'm passionate about really helping people raise their games so that they have a much more enriched experience of life.

Jeff Ma  4:14  
Wow, that's that's big and hairy and audacious. I love it. Thank you. What? What is human connection in that? Is that human connection, or is there more or less to

Stuart Knight  4:27  
it? Well, human connection is something that spawned from the many things I've done now as an entrepreneur now for like, almost 30 years, I guess it's been and just like anything you know, I often say to people, start anywhere, because anywhere is a place, and anywhere will lead you everywhere. And so where I'm at today being the founder of an organization called the human connection group that was never on my radar when I was 20 years old. More frankly, it was just like, Hey, can I keep doing this speaking thing? And then, from the speaking thing, it led to me then writing musicals. Was in the city of Toronto, and I would then find myself having this weekly theater show, and at the end of that show, I would invite the audience to come and stay and to mingle with each other and to get to know each other and to connect. And I saw people were really struggling with that, that they didn't know how to talk to strangers, they didn't know how to open up and to be vulnerable. Well, that then led me to writing a book on the subject, and that book then got me into a situation where companies started asking me to speak on the subject. So the human connection thing was not necessarily something I set out to do. It just kind of landed on my lap after I found myself seeing people struggle with it so much, and so today, now, after really diving into the subject for many years, I see human connection as the opposite of what most people do, and that is to have those mind to mind connections. You know, you go into work, you speak to your colleague and you ask them about their weekend, or you're a salesperson, and you make a phone call to a client and you ask them what they're up to this summer. And you know, you talk to the receptionist at your business and you say, How's your you know, you know, whatever. How's your kid doing in school? Right? You ask these kinds of questions, and what happens is, is that the other person shares information with you. They give you, as I call, you call it the stats on the back of their baseball card. And you get those stats, and you then might make a quick comment on it, but then you move on with your day. So that's a mind to mind connection where we share information, and I'm talking now today to people, to get them realizing that human connection is not when you share thoughts, but rather when you share feelings. So a feeling might be something as simple as a shared curiosity, or it could be a shared sadness, or it could be a feeling where both of you are in awe of something to do without a space. It could be a shared feeling we both talk about how you know difficulty of being a teenager and having your parents getting divorced, and that's something you have in common with that other person, whatever it may be when we're sharing feelings with another person now, instead of having that mind to mind connection, we're having a heart to heart connection. And that heart to heart connection is really what true human connection is, and it's what we did for millions of years, up until the most recent, I guess, decades in humanity.

Jeff Ma  7:16  
My brain is exploding right now. I love everything you just said, and I love it because I guess the best way I can put it is that you're giving me an entirely different, differently framed way of talking about one of my favorite topics, which to me, what I heard was, you know, we're talking about vulnerability and building that type of vulnerable trust with one another. But, you know, that's, that's a very boring sounding phrase in what you said was, you know, so powerful, like the mind to mind versus heart to heart, and the truth that I heard in all this, like how we just interact, talking about our weekends, talking about our days, shifting. That is very compelling, the way you framed it. So love that. And my question is, how do we practice shifting into that space more

Stuart Knight  8:15  
Well, the one thing I would say is, is that when people hear this and they're talking about the idea of moving from mind to mind, into heart to heart. I want to be crystal clear with your listeners and your viewers to say, look, it's not about getting all woo, woo. It's not about getting, you know, into the point where every conversation we have with someone has to end in tears and hugs and that we have to sing Kumbaya together. What I'm saying is that we have so much more potential to connect with each other when we do, in fact, as you identified it, have an actual frame, a framework something we're aiming for, an actual goal. It's no different than going to the gym when you say, Okay, well, this is the the weight that I want to hit, and this is the cardio level I want to reach, and on and on and on. From there, you change the way in which you approach your time at the gym. Well, if you were to say to yourself, well, I want to connect with people on a deeper level with the intention of having a deeper experience in life, you then have to ask yourself, what do I need to do? And what you need to do in a very I guess a small synopsis of it, if you will, is to change your questions, because when you change your questions, you change people's answers, and when you change people's answers, you change the connection. And so I often say, Look, you can say to your your to your wife, hey, you know, is there anything you need me to do around the house? Okay, well, that's a question, and she might say, Yeah, could you do some laundry? And that's fine. Those are questions we have to ask. But at what point during your week, your week, do you say to your wife or your husband or your partner, hey, what do I do that makes you feel most loved? All of a sudden, now I'm changing the question. I'm going to change the answer and increase the likelihood that we might connect on something meaningful. The same with your children, your children. To come home from school and you say, how was school today? Well, they're just going to give you a chronological breakdown of what happened at school today. But if you change the questions, and you say, Hey, listen, honey, at what point today did you feel most proud of yourself, or was there ever a time that you had to help a friend? If so, what'd you do and how'd you do it? And when we again, we changed the questions, all of a sudden we're going to get different answers and a different connection with our kids, same way in the workplace, you know, you ask Bob, Hey, Bob, how was your weekend? And Bob comes back and says, it was good, but I was busy. Well, you can either you say to that person, which most people do, which is say, Yeah, I know what you mean. God, me too busy. You never know. It's crazy, isn't it? Friday comes next thing, you know, it's Monday. You know, it's like BS. It's not true connection. Instead say to Bob. Oh, hey, Bob. You know, out of all the things that were keeping you most busy, what was the biggest thing you had to clear off your plate when all of a sudden Bob tells you about, I don't know, a yard sale that he had? Okay, well, keep asking questions about that that are meaningful to Bob, and from there, you'll increase the likelihood of connecting. And so the one thing I really encourage people to think of is to have a framework of five areas of what I call can lead something to a powerful conversation, and thus a powerful connection. So the five main areas that you want to aim for are, number one, you want to try to continuously learn something new about the people you're speaking to, whether that's a customer, a colleague, a client, or even your wife or husband or partner you've been married to for the last 40 years. I mean, I even joke about this when I'm speaking to my corporate audiences. I'll say, sometimes I'm in a restaurant and I'll see you know an older couple who's been married for 50 years and they haven't spoken to each other for the last 20 minutes during their meal because they're convinced that they've run out of conversation, like we've covered every subject. I always joke. I say I want to walk over to their table and say, Hey, listen, guys, if you could be invisible for one day, where would you go and why? And they'd be like, you're welcome, and then just leave a table. Because guess what? I bet you they've never asked that question, and all of a sudden now they're learning new things about each other. So that's the first one. The second thing is, make it meaningful to the other person. Like, let them talk ask questions that let them talk about things. Talk about things that they're jacked up about, things that they're excited about. And I often joke around about this too. I say, you know, after writing a book on this subject and doing a lot of research on it, it turns out that the weather is not the most meaningful thing. No way to people. It's like, yeah, did you know this? Imagine that, right? And this is the first thing we say, Hey, did you hear you know the sun, it came out again today. We should, we should address this next time we see each other. Third thing is, is try to make your conversations more memorable again if you'll never hit a goal that you don't aim for. And so if you say to yourself, I'm going to try to make this conversation with Jeff or with my colleague or that customer or my neighbor, the most memorable conversation they have all day, automatically, you force yourself to start thinking of questions that make it memorable. So again, make that your goal. The fourth thing I talked about is really asking questions that allow you to discover what you have in common with that person you know, I talk a lot about people, you know, dei, for example, and belonging are big subjects in the corporate world these days, and and it's an important subject, obviously. But, you know, I often say to my clients, look, you've got to be able to get the people who have different skin color, different religious backgrounds, different sexual orientations, in a room talking to each other, asking questions that allow them to find out that they both love the same favorite band, or that they both dream of traveling to the same country someday. You see, it's those types of connections that make us feel like we're part of the same tribe, and all of a sudden, those differences really begin to dissolve. And the fifth thing I tell people is like, look, when you go into conversations, recognize that human beings are living in a very serious world these days. So ask questions that make it more fun. You know, let them tell you a story that's funny about their childhood simply because you asked the right kind of question. And so that's a framework that I really encourage people to consider. You know, learn something new. Make it meaningful to them. Make it memorable. Find out what you have in common and make it more fun. The more you do that, the more often you're going to increase your likelihood of having a heart to heart connection, as opposed to a mind to mind connection,

Jeff Ma  14:15  
taking notes, saving this alongside the fact that I have a sexy voice, I like that. I'm gonna say those two things. For me, this is awesome. And I think, I think this framework is, is straightforward, simple, but it's, it's enough to for anybody, I'm sure, listening to this, to introspect on and really look at how they're starting and leading conversations. And this could be a real game changer. So I love that, and I have 100 other directions I want to take this, but I have to choose this one for the sake of just really wanting to get to a heart of what I'm feeling when I hear all of this is that I'm I'm connecting this now to kind of the discomfort of conflict. Conflict, and I wanted to hear more from you, because we're talking about this importance of curiosity and just kind of being changing the way we kind of connect, but also there's the way that we disconnect, right? There's conflicts that are natural and healthy, really, to have and necessary. But when I hear kind of the the tips and the kind of the approach that you're sharing it, I can't help but kind of connect it to what I consider to be kind of the healthiest types of conflicts, if you're able to to to employ so Yeah, can you talk a little bit about conflict and how you kind of help people navigate, or how kind of your framework, if you will, around around conflict?

Stuart Knight  15:45  
Yeah, so I would say there's two things I would give to that answer. The first is to do what hopefully most democratic societies do on a daily basis around the world, and to preemptively avoid conflict by creating relationships that cause people to not want to have conflict with you in the first place. And so I often say this again to my clients in the workplace. What conflict? When conflict arises, it often arises because you feel like that person is other than they are out to get you. They don't support your ideas. They want to get ahead of you, and what's happened is that you think this way because you've created a story about who that person is, and in many cases, you're just flat out wrong. So if you preemptively make the effort to build meaningful human relationships with the people that you work with on a daily basis, when there is a disagreement, well, you've already created the bond with that person so that the disagreement is one that you see as being just that it's just a two different people seeing things differently, and not an adversary who sees it differently with the intention or the agenda to do some harm to you. And so that's why I say preemptively, build those relationships as a defense mechanism to conflict, if you will, in the future. However, as you said, conflict arises, and so there is nothing you can do about that, and it is healthy. I agree with you there. So I would say one of the best things again, is to come back to the questions, okay? And to ask the individual who sees things perhaps differently, or perhaps did something that caused the conflict in the first place, to ask them those kinds of questions that allow you to connect with them up on the actual conflict itself in a different way. As opposed to going in and say, You did this, you hurt me this way, you screwed this up, instead, come from a different angle, and say, What was your intention when you made that decision? What were you hoping the outcome was going to be? You know, what role did you see me playing in all of this when you made that decision, or when you didn't think about perhaps other people within the organization? Did you give any consideration to how that might make everyone else feel. And all of a sudden, now you start getting the true story. You're giving the person the opportunity to share with you the angle that they did approach what it is that they did. And all of a sudden, for now, you are in a position where you are able to tackle the real story, as opposed to the one that you make up in your mind. And this is true with, you know, people who are in relationships or friendships or with your kids, if we ask questions, we find out, Oh, okay, they weren't trying to sabotage me, or they weren't trying to make me look stupid in front of my friends. They were, you know, whatever, whatever the reason was, they share it with me, and now we can at least be discussing the real issue as opposed to the one that we make up in our mind. So I would just say again, it comes back to the questions preemptively, so you build meaningful relationships in advance, and the questions actively during the moment that allow you to tackle it in a much more mature manner.

Jeff Ma  19:00  
Okay, so we talked about, like, the power of this, this curious conversation, and just kind of asking questions, and you've applied it to I guess I would say the most challenging part of of conversation is having difficult conversations like this. Do you have any tips for the I guess this is less about the content of the conversation, but more about the courage of having that conversation. What I mean is, I think we're very good at finding a million reasons to maintain our comfort and kind of avoid whether we're too busy or, you know, we're playing, we're replaying in our head over and over how this is going to play out, and any pretty and we're afraid of how they'll react, or we think it won't lead to anything. You know, we'll find 100 reasons to not go and ask those questions and work on that relationship when it's uncomfortable. What. Yeah, what do you like? What's your take on that, and your your tips for anyone to do otherwise?

Stuart Knight  20:07  
Well, great question. And you know a few things, the first thing that comes to mind is to remind your listeners that nine out of the 10, nine out of 10 things we worry about never come true. And so that is something that constantly causes us to not even start the conversation, simply because of all the things that we're worried about that are going to happen. As you said, I often say, don't let the conversation of your mind stop you from having the conversation of your heart for that very reason. And so the one thing that I would really get your listeners to consider is this, is that quite often we are doing things or not doing things based on the motivation that we create for ourselves, which is usually related to either what we stand to gain or what we stand to lose. Okay, so the reason why someone will walk up to an individual at the bar or at the restaurant and introduce themselves who they think is attractive is because, man, if this works out, I have a lot to gain, and as well, if I don't do it, I have a lot to lose, which is that feeling of not being in a relationship, which is something that person may want. However, as you go through daily life, people think, well, I've got a great partner and I've got a family, and I've got a pretty darn good job, and I've got a house over my head. Why do I need to go out there and build these meaningful relationships? And I think, like anything else, it comes down to education. You see, once you really understand the role that these social dynamics create and play in your life, you will be as motivated to want to build meaningful relationships as you are, to do the other things that I don't have to convince you on, which is to sleep well, eat well, exercise and to have good mental health and good physical health, because everyone has drank the Kool Aid on that everyone knows, yes, you should work, walk for 30 minutes a day. I should make sure I have enough fruits and vegetables. I should definitely get eight hours of sleep. I should drink lots of water, because we've been inundated with so much information that has shown us all the benefits that that brings in our life, that we're motivated to do something about it, whereas I think that we're now just finally, from a research perspective, entering into the realm of people finally waking up to the dramatic role that it plays. And so you know, on the first thing, first level I'll talk about is just you on a physiological level. So the deeper your human connections are with other people, research shows that you have lower rates of blood pressure, that you have a better immune system, that you respond to surgery better than those who don't have strong social connections, you heal faster and you sleep better. Your circadian rhythm runs more smoothly. The synapses of your brain fire more quickly. And I could give you 25 more really incredible things that are benefiting us when we engage in these meaningful relationships on a psychological level. Again, research has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the stronger your social ties are with other people, the higher the likelihood is is that you will not have mental health challenges. You will have lower rates of depression, lower rates of suicide, lower rates of stress, lower rates of anxiety. Again, because we are engaging with people the way that we have for millions of years as well, I would get people feeling motivated, from a financial perspective, back to the research, it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that when you build meaningful human relationships with people at work, that on average, you are more productive at your job, You are happier at your job. You are in you experience less conflict on the job. You can work out problems more quickly. People want to collaborate with you. More innovation increases, absenteeism decreases, talent retention increases. I mean, across the board, there's a million reasons why a person might want to engage in meaningful conversations, even for those who are in sales again, those who have a high EQ emotional quotient, those who have a great emotional intelligence, those who make the effort to build personal relationships with their customers. Again, research is saying this, this is not me. They outperform their competition by they double the number of sales in their competition. And so people buy from people they you know, when it comes right down to it, most likely you sell the same widget as the competition you sell the same service. Is not much of a difference. So what are you selling? You're selling you. You're selling the trust in you, the relationship with you. So there are so many reasons why I could get people to think about the importance of building these relationships, because the benefit is so dramatic that it should supersede any excuse that you create in your mind. And to not do it. And the one last thing I'll say on that Jeff is researchers have been, you know, talking quite a bit now, recently about this idea of loneliness and how we're facing a loneliness epidemic on planet Earth. I believe the most recent statistic I read is 58% of Americans feel lonely every week. 41% of men and 29% of women feel lonely at work every day. 30% of millennials say that they feel lonely, and 22% of millennials say that they have zero friends. So people hear that they think loneliness. What are you talking about? I'm not lonely. I know people. And what researchers have said is that loneliness is not the absence of people in your life, it's the absence of connection to the people in your life. And the three main categories that they really have focused on is, they're saying if you don't feel a meaningful connection to your significant other, which is many case a partner, but it could be a brother or a sister, or number two, your friends, and number three, your community, if you don't feel a significant connection to people in any one of those three categories, you are then suffering from loneliness, which I would then argue is that, aren't we all, on some level, at least every week, at some point, suffering from loneliness. And so if that's true, just like anything else that we're motivated to do, which is to eat well, so that we don't get cancer, to exercise, well, so I don't get heart disease. Well, we should invest in meaningful relationships, because we also don't want to have all the negative impacts that can happen when we don't, which is a worse physiological situation, worse mental health, and lower results at work and across the board. So there's a million reasons why to overcome that discomfort.

Jeff Ma  26:46  
Wow. All right, take a breath, and here we are. Thank you. Thank you Stuart, for that, I think, chock full of really, really valuable nuggets today, and I can't thank you enough for just what you shared across that curiosity, talking about how it applies to conflict with this last piece, especially, right? This courage is doesn't always have to come from just this bravery place, but also from what's in it for me, yeah, which is, which is a very real, real motivator. So awesome, awesome stuff. Stuart, how can people get a hold of you or learn more from you, or just, really, just have all this awesome stuff from you in any other way?

Stuart Knight  27:27  
Well, I'd say the best thing to do, I mean, right now, the easiest place is human connection group.com, that's our website. That's where everything's happening. But as well, if those are listeners, are out there that are on to Instagram. I show up there as Stuart s knight on Instagram, and it's there that I show up where I'm not really focusing as much as I am about the human connection people have with others, but more specifically, they are the human connection that they have with themselves, and really double downing on the importance of that. And of course, you know this is a I know that you have a lot of business listeners, so anybody who wants to hang out on LinkedIn, you can find me there as well. But yeah, human connection group and Stuart s knight on Instagram, those are the best places.

Jeff Ma  28:16  
Awesome, awesome, sir. Thank you again. And thank you to our listeners for hanging in there and sticking with us. We hope you enjoyed this episode and all the other ones that are coming out. Check out the book. Love is a business strategy. And if you haven't yet, leave us a review on this podcast, on the book, and please do visit Stuart humanconnectiongroup.com I'm gonna check you out on Instagram, and then I've taken so many notes from this episode, I'm gonna go process this so thank you. Thank you so much. And with that, we'll be signing off. We hope everyone has a good week. See you next time. Thanks. Yeah.

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