John Sanchez: If my mission is, hey, Dr. Sanchez, you're supposed to develop a leader of character who's going to go out and make a positive difference in the community in which they live, work and serve. What do you think's most important?

Jeff Ma: Hello and welcome to Love as a Business Strategy, a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business, but we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from. We believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. I'm your host, Jeff Ma, and I'm here, as always, to listen and talk to people about real businesses, real stories, real humanity, and love at the center of successful business. My guest today is Dr. John Sanchez, a clinical assistant professor at Texas A&M's Mays Business School and a proud recipient of the 2025 Mays Business School Teaching Excellence Award. With a background in high-end luxury retail and wholesale, John brings real-world business experience into the classroom, blending it with a unique, human-centered teaching approach. He's here to share how he's helping graduate students understand and apply love as a business strategy and how that combination of practical expertise and people-first leadership is shaping tomorrow's business leaders. John, thank you so much for being on the show. How are you?

John Sanchez: I'm great. Thank you so much for having me. That was fantastic.

Jeff Ma: Yeah, and um we met yesterday and I go, want to be on the podcast? And you said,

John Sanchez: Absolutely.

Jeff Ma: sure.

John Sanchez: Of course.

Jeff Ma: So here you are. But it's because we had such an incredible conversation. I want to bring that in today. Um but before we begin, um one question to kick me off and the audience off here is, what is your passion and how did you find it?

John Sanchez: It's funny you said it actually in the intro, uh when you talked about um me as a higher education professor and my approach to my students. honestly, my approach to everything I plan, everything I prepare, everything I deliver for them. Uh and I know it's it's um in your vernacular and people know that from you and and the team at Softway that everything is actually done and stems from love. That's where my passion is. So at Mays Business School at Texas A&M University, our mission, right, is to develop leaders of character who will make a positive difference in the communities in which they live, work and serve. If that's the case, how on earth am I supposed to do that? And that's the question at the forefront of my mind every time I plan something. How can I be goodness to them? How can I love them to a place where I'm preparing them to be a leader of character? I'm preparing them to make an incredible impact in the communities where they live, work and serve. That's the passion. That's why I love what I do. Um that I would that part I would probably do for free. Um they pay me to go to faculty meetings and to do all the other stuff. But as far as the planning, preparing and actually getting in front of the students and doing that, like as you phrased it, the passionate way, I would do that part for free.

Jeff Ma: One of the really interesting parts of our conversation yesterday was this this idea of how you bring business, like true business experience and business understanding into these grad, you know, business graduate school classrooms where they're learning about how to go do business. To me, I was like, oh, that makes perfect sense. But what I learned from you is that might not be very common. And I was hoping you could talk a little bit about that.

John Sanchez: in higher education, no. Um so I I always joke um but I don't it's I'm serious, but I always joke and I tell people, I used to work for a living before I became a professor. And some people get it and some don't. Ultimately what I mean is I I spent the good portion of my life over half my life actually, uh in the business world, in industry. Um and I know that when I went back to school at a late age to get my MBA and then again to go get my doctorate, having that real world experience and having experience in the business world, uh allowed me to immediately make every subject relatable when I was studying it. That was a huge advantage for me in grad school, MBA and doctoral, same thing. When I pursued my doctoral program, I was encouraged by my professors to do it for a lot of reasons. One that stuck out was John, you have so much real world experience that you're going to bring things into the classroom that most professors cannot. I kind of took me by surprise. what do you mean? It was expressed to me before I even entered my doctoral program by other professors, mind you, that a lot of them do not have real world experience. A lot of them have not worked for a living. And I know that sounds maybe a little bit callous, but what they mean is they don't have the experience in industry to back up or to support or to relate to what it is they're delivering in their classrooms. A lot of them will get their bachelor degree, they may get their masters, they may not, but they'll go get their PhD and then they start, quote unquote teaching. Um I'm a firm believer that anybody can teach. However, it's got to be something that you're absolutely passionate about. If you put up put a person in front of a room of people and they're passionate about whatever the topic is, I am a firm believer that with enough practice, they can do a phenomenal job of relaying and teaching others. In other words, really facilitating their education on that particular subject. I'm not about to stand up in front of anybody and talk about anything that I don't know. And you and I talked about this yesterday. How do you actually know anything? And you answered spot on which most people don't answer on the first try. It's through experience. I don't know anything unless I've actually experienced it. So I'm not about to get up in front of any of my courses or classes or students and talk about any subject or topic that I don't feel incredibly knowledgeable about, only because I've experienced it. I'm not merely going to stand up and recite or regurgitate something that I've read or something that I've researched. It's got to be relevant, it's got to be real world, it's got to be rigorous. I have to have experienced it. And that has definitely enriched uh what I do. It's really the only way I can do what I do. But I found that a lot of my my colleagues, um and granted, this is the fifth school that I've taught in Texas A&M University, but a lot of colleagues do not have real world work experience. I noticed it, but over the last couple years, so many of my students have pointed it out to me. And they're blunt. They'll ask, they'll ask uh poignant questions. Obviously, once we established rapport and build relationship in my classroom, which happens very quickly, the students become very vulnerable, especially with their questions. They're candid and and they appreciate that. I mean, they can smell BS a mile away. Not just in me, but anyone. and this goes with all their other professors. So over the last couple years actually, it's my students primarily that have brought this to my attention. And they'll say things like, you know, Dr. Sanchez, we were having a conversation in this class and this topic came up and and we started asking questions, all of a sudden the professor shut it down. And we felt like we were just getting going. And it was almost as if they didn't know an answer or it was almost as if they were intimidated or it was almost as if they just didn't know. And I said, well, you're actually right on all three counts. Nothing's wrong with that, as long as you implement a little bit of humility in there, like, I don't know everything. I'll be the first to admit, I don't know everything. There's always room for improvement. Regardless of how long I've been doing anything, regardless of how much experience I have in any field, there's always more to learn, there's always room for improvement. But they kept pointing this out over and over and over. And so with that, a lot of them were asking about my professional background because I was very hesitant to share it for the first couple years that I taught. I just thought it would be bragging or boasting, talking about things I've done or where I've worked or accolades or whatever. So to to remain modest and humble, I just didn't share. They started asking for real world examples. If we talked about a topic, Dr. Sanchez, can you give us an example? Absolutely, and I'd have a couple to give them, regardless of the topic. That really peaked their interest. And then throughout the class and certainly at the end of the class, I started to get comments from students, why do you not share this more? Well, it was really just coming from a a modesty or a humility standpoint. And they said we actually feel like you're robbing us. We feel like you're not giving us everything you could because you're not sharing your real world experiences. So that coupled with the fact that I see and hear the background of my colleagues, I realized there's a big gap between what the students get with someone who has had real world experience and can speak to that and someone who hasn't. It's theory and frameworks versus practical. And they they need both, but ultimately

Jeff Ma: If my mission is, hey, Dr. Sanchez, you're supposed to develop a leader of character who's going to go out and make a positive difference in the community in which they live, work and serve. What do you think's most important? What's going to help them the most? What's going to set them up for success? Yeah. I love that. And you know what? It's just coming it's dawning on me why I connect so strongly with you is because your kind of approach and story behind you know, everything you just said about how you how you teach and how you incorporate that experience and into the stories and into the lessons is exactly kind of my philosophy, our philosophy when it comes to, you know, love as a business strategy. Like we don't we we went out to write a book that wasn't about academia, wasn't about the just the the the X's and o's but also um just telling the story, the experience of of what happened. I think experience often is the best teacher, um whether it's of course experiencing yourself but even when you're learning through others, hearing their stories and hearing about their experiences helps us immensely. and I I think that's amazing that students get that opportunity with you.

John Sanchez: That's that's the reason why everyone that I've ever met that has heard about softway or heard about culture rise or heard about the book, they're they're absolutely attracted to it. regardless of age, regardless of background, regardless of the arena in which they work, students, my students, it was one of my students that actually led me to your book in the first place. And I know that that they've attended, you know, your workshop as well. And that's the exact reason why people are so attracted, why they love the book and I know they're going to love the second one, why they devour it, why they spread the word about it and why they immediately see it relatable and applicable. That's what people want. It's not a quick fix, it's just, let me show you how to think about those things that you're going through. That's why people love you guys, that's why they love the book because it's immediately relatable, it's actionable, it's immediately applicable and it's real. They've heard the stuff before, they've never heard it put together like you have. They've never seen or heard the the level or the degree of vulnerability, certainly in a business realm. Like we talked about yesterday, you know, you and I and most people in business, we we've all kind of received our training the same from the same places. Our upbringing, society, academics and now the business world has trained us on how to think about things. Then all of a sudden, you know, you, Frank and Mohammad and Chris come along and you messed that up because you're candid and real and you talk about things in an incredibly vulnerable way, which sparks the same thing in other people. They love that. They want that, they desire that. and then when they get into it, they absolutely relish it. And they're thinking to themselves, where's this been all my life? And and I I wish it wasn't true. I mean, I like this, what I'm about to tell you and I like it and I enjoy it, but I wish it wasn't true. My students actually feel the same way. They come to me and and they tell me, Dr. Sanchez, that's the best class I've ever had. Or they write me notes, handwritten notes or they send emails or they send texts because yes, I give my students all my students my phone number, which a lot of people thought that's stupid, that's risky. But they love it and and they use it and they appreciate it. But when I hear things like Dr. Sanchez, that's the best class I've ever had, I like that. I like hearing that, but at the same time it makes me sad. Because I most I have mostly graduate students, that means they've been in school at least three, mostly four, sometimes five years. And I think to myself and I say to them, my gosh, if that was the best class you've ever had, what has what have you been doing up until this point? What have your classes been like? And and so but but that's why students walk away at least having been impacted and that's why your readers and your listeners feel the same thing. It's the exact same reason.

Jeff Ma: I appreciate the the kudos and and it's helping me really realize in this moment why that education parallels the real world, right? Like if if if we're leaving leaving schools to go out and do these types of jobs, then yeah, school is meant to prepare us for those types of jobs.

John Sanchez: Supposed to. Yeah.

Jeff Ma: Supposed to, yeah, but you know, obviously, uh Love as a Business strategy and everything we talk about is trying to create a new way of thinking and revolution around how work is supposed to happen. and so I think it's really important that that that the education that parallels it also starts changing, which is what you're doing, which is like where it needs to start here because otherwise everyone's still leaving or entering school and leaving school kind of tainted with with kind of this other version of business, this other version of of what they assume good leaders and what power looks like and what winning looks like out in the business world, right? Like they've they've been taught this indirectly and that's where I think more more professors, but just education educators in general and I would say even further back than than higher education, right? Um we should start we should be starting to have different conversations maybe. Um because because I guess my question for you is what are we preparing kids for? I I would love your opinion on like, I'll use kids loosely, but what are we preparing youth and and the upcoming generation for? Um what's the most important for thing for you for them to leave um your classes with or what into the real world? Like what do you think our job is to equip them with?

John Sanchez: So I I actually really love our new mission at the business school. You know, preparing leaders of character. And what are we preparing them for? Well we want them to go and make a positive difference in the communities where they work. We want them to make a positive difference in the communities where they live and certainly where they serve. I love our mission. I really do. But because of that, I'm constantly asking myself, like I said earlier, at the at the forefront of my mind is well what am I doing then? in my role, the way I speak to them, the way I set up the class, how we hold class. So like you said, and I tell them, how I ask them, how old are you? 23. So you've been trained one way for 23 years. You you said it yesterday when we were together yesterday, they come to you tainted because they've had this training for 23 years. Then all of a sudden they come into my class. I only have 16 weeks with them. which is not very long. In the 16 weeks, I see them twice a week. for an hour and a half each time. That's nothing. So I'm combating their 23 years of training with the a certain number of hours that I have exposed to them. So I take my job very seriously. And you asked, what is it that you're preparing them for? Well, I'm preparing them to win every day. I told you yesterday, I asked them the same questions. Everybody the same questions on day one, who likes to win? Everybody's hand goes up. Second question, who wants to make sure that when you leave here and you start your job, your work matters? Your work is significant and your work makes a difference. Undoubtedly, every hand goes up. If that's true, if what you told me is true, that you like to win and that when you go to work, you want to make sure that your work matters is significant and makes a difference, then that's my responsibility. How do I get you to a place where no matter what happens day-to-day in business, which is wrought with business problems, difficult circumstances, difficult people. How do I get you to the place to ensure that you can win every day? Whether that which is in front of you is good or bad or ugly. And then secondly, how do I get you to a place where when you leave and when you leave my classroom at the end of the term, you can walk out knowing confidently that when you go to work, it's going to matter, it's going to be significant and it's going to make a difference. So my approach to everything, particularly in what we talk about, right? So this is the first term in my strategy classes that I will make love as a business strategy required reading. It's a it's a huge component of my courses moving forward because the truths, the the the vulnerability that you share, the truths that you share about a real company and your journeys, they need to be exposed to that. And and so it's not just Dr. Sanchez always talking about it. Now we have other people that can share these some fantastic examples of real life, real world things that are ultimately going to set you up for success. That's my job. How can I set you up for success? I don't know where you're going to work in the future, I don't know where you're going, I don't know what arena or what industry or what field you'll be in, but how can I make sure that I set you up for success? And it all comes down to your thinking. How do you think about things? You guys do a fantastic job of that. You expose truth behind uh business acumen, behind business vernacular that we're all used to, situations that most of us if we haven't been in before, we're going to be in it. And you expose uh your failures, you expose what you did to remedy that, and you expose the incredible benefit from uh doing the right thing. And as you guys put it through love. And so that's why it's it's required reading for my classes moving forward because they need that and they need it from another voice just aside from my own all the time. I mean, I know they appreciate me, but I can't be the only one telling them this. And and your book just continues to reinforce that which I'm trying to do, which is set them up for success. Everything we talk about is good news. The bad stuff, there's it's still good news, right? And I'm like you. I mean, you voiced yesterday, it came up probably four different times when the day that we spent yesterday together about your heart is, I don't want anybody to sneak by. I don't want anybody to get lost. I want to make sure everybody's reached. Right? That's this project we're working on. You you just kept saying it over and over and over. Yeah, but I don't want anybody to get by. I don't want to miss out. I don't want anybody to miss out. And that's my approach as well with my students, right? I know I'm not everybody's cup of tea, but at the same time, um every day that I go into class right before I go into class, I'm constantly thinking, how can I be goodness to them? regardless of where they're at, regardless of what they're doing, regardless of what industry they're going to. And I I know I don't think like everyone else. I just don't care. Right? The way I think dictates uh how I make decisions, how I treat my students and what I do, plan and prepare. Obviously, it's having some kind of positive impact, right? Uh it was it was such an honor uh to win that award uh this this year uh for the teaching excellence award. I didn't expect it. It was such an honor. It's only my third year here at Texas A&M. and I found out that um you had to be voted by the students to win the award. And then the office that took these votes and uh nominations, they don't have to do this, but they totally blew me away because they actually emailed me um some of the comments that students had given and uh it was very humbling to say the least. It was great.

Jeff Ma: Well, from what I know of you, well deserved and you know, as we wrap up here, um I know we haven't had enough time to kind of dive into all the nuances of what, you know, our discussions around higher education, love as a business strategy, how they connect, but I'm so glad and grateful that you had this chance to come and share it on the podcast because your story, your approach, I think is absolutely critical to the mission, my mission, really of bringing humanity back to the workplace because we we can't just do it up at the current sea levels. We can't just do it with the leaders of today, we have to do it with the leaders of tomorrow with the kids of today. Um and you're doing that work and I and I don't think there's enough attention there and just hearing how you've been passionate about that, driving that forward, really motivates me and I appreciate you coming today and sharing those stories and and and and all that and all that.

John Sanchez: Absolutely, it was my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Jeff Ma: Absolutely, and to the audience, thank you so much for tuning in as always. Uh we're here posting episodes every two weeks and if you appreciate it and like it, um send us a shout out but also give us a rating. Um five stars, all that good stuff. Check out the book Love as a Business strategy and coming soon, Love is a change strategy. Um Amazon, other retailers as well. Um subscribe if you haven't, but with that, we'll see you all in two weeks. Appreciate Dr. John Sanchez for joining us and we'll be signing off.

John Sanchez: Awesome. Thank you